Circular Podcast with Jay Blades

Welcome to Season 2 of Circular with Katie Treggiden. We’re kicking things off with Jay Blades, a modern furniture restorer, upcycler and eco designer who is passionate about sustainability and community. In this episode, we discuss his history with furniture restoration, the importance of investing in the next generation of creators, why helping people you may never meet truly matters and lots more. Jay Blades is now best known for presenting the BBC’s Money for Nothing, The Repair Shop and most recently Jay and Dom’s Home Fix.

I’ve known Jay for a long time, so it was lovely to catch up with him for a proper conversation about a subject that is so close to both of our hearts. We discuss:- His earliest memory of repairing things. – His former non-profit Out of the Dark and teaching young people to repair and restore old furniture. – The reason future proofing is so important. – The end of his marriage, his experience with homelessness and how he came back from it all.

Below is a transcript of our conversation. Find the full episode available to listen on Spotify here.

 

INTRO

I’m Katie Treggiden, and this is Circular. A podcast exploring the intersections of craft, design and sustainability. Join me as I talk to the thinkers, doers, and makers of the circular economy. These are the people who are challenging the linear take, make, waste model of production and consumption and working towards something better.  In this series, we’re talking about repair.

 

GUEST SNIPPET

One of the things that I love about restoration is it brings so many elements of people who have been put on, let’s say, the scrap heap. If you’re going to the educational system, it’s set up where if you don’t get the A* plus or you don’t get the grades, you’re really going to amount to nothing, is kind of what they’re saying to you. If you get the A*s; you’re going college and going to university, have 2.5 kids and you’re happily ever after; you’ve got a brilliant job. Whereas the way that I look at things, I look at sustainability as a whole. Some people look at it as “Oh, you’ve got to separate your plastics from your paper and your glass and this and that.” Sustainability includes people, and these young people need to have something put into them that allows them to see themselves as sustainable and as valued members within our society.

 

GUEST INTRO

Jay Blades is a modern furniture restorer, upcycler and eco designer who’s passionate about sustainability and the environment. The ethos behind his own furniture brand, Jay & Co, is the source of vintage and beautifully crafted pieces of furniture and home accessories, then restore or reimagine them into works of contemporary design. And, of course, he is now best known for presenting the BBC’s Money for Nothing, The Repair Shop, and most recently Jay and Dom’s Home Fix. I’ve known Jay for a long time. It was lovely to catch up for a proper conversation about a subject that is so close to both of our hearts.

 

GUEST INTERVIEW PART 1

Katie

I would like to start right at the beginning, if I may and ask you a little bit about your childhood, and how mending and repair showed up in your early life, if indeed they did at all?

 

Jay

Well, first of all, thank you for having me; blimey, I’m working with a legend! I’m speaking to someone I’ve known for a number of years that I’ve truly admired and has supported me right from the get go, from when we started Out of the Dark and stuff. Anytime you call and ask me to do something I’m there, no problem.

 

Katie

Thank you, Jay.

 

Jay

But my childhood, the earliest memories of repairing, I think. I grew up in a council estate in Hackney. And basically, we didn’t have much money, and what used to happen, you just have to make do and mend. And one of the things that was really apparent for me growing up, is that you can do it. You can repair stuff, you can make; I remember being given a frame by someone. I think it was an uncle, or it was an older brother. Yeah, everybody’s your brother and your uncle on a council estate, everybody can tell you off! And basically, I remember getting a frame and said, “Oh, you’ve got a bike now”. And I’m like, there’s no handlebars, there’s no seat, there’s no wheels, there’s no chain, hold on, there’s no pedals; it was just the frame. And I think, over a series of months I started getting bits and bobs from different places, and then putting it all together. And I think I had the most oddest bike on the council estate because it just looked weird. So, my earliest memories, I would say of any form of repairing was making my own bike. But then also we used to get a guy used to come around to the council estate and he had this big stone and he used to sharpen your scissors and your knifes, and I remember my mum giving me a set of knives, and there was just a load of kids queuing up there. They’re just like, okay, like, we’re getting these knives sharpened. In this day and age and health and safety, they’d have said, no, you can’t do that. But I remember all of us kids just standing and chatting to each other, and we give this guy some money, I think it was like 20p, and he’ll sharpen all the knives for you. That’s really cool.

 

Katie

Amazing, I think it’s interesting you said about that idea that mending and repair gives you a sense of agency, a sense that actually, well, I can sort this out myself or at least I can learn how to, and that’s really important.

 

Jay

Yes, for me growing up, it was all about that kind of.  You had hand me downs, so you’d wear clothes that belonged to someone else. That was the original form of recycling, let’s say. And then you had people just giving you food; not necessarily that you were poor, it was a way of them saying, well all I have to offer you is food. They couldn’t give you presents, or anything like that, but this whole notion of making something. I remember that I had this. I’m writing a book, and sorry to plug it, but a book comes out later on this year and …

 

Katie

Plug away. What’s it called?

 

Jay

It’s called Making it, and it’s my autobiography.

 

Katie

Amazing, and when is it out?

 

Jay Blades 

The 13th of May.  It is out.

 

Katie

Amazing. Plug done!

 

Jay

Thank you.  And then I spoke to my mum.  I said to my mum, that I was writing this book, and then I’ve got an editor who’s working with me to do it. And it was like, there was this thing in all of the Caribbean kitchens that I never knew what it was, and he goes, “you’ve got to ask your mum about that”, and I said,” yeah, I am.” And what it was, in Caribbean houses, you had this orange peel, so imagine peeling an orange, but doing it all as one. So you’ve just got this whole strand of an orange peel. And it used to hang up in the kitchen. And every house, my aunties, my uncles, any house I went to, everybody had one of these. And I was just like;I never knew what it was. And I grew up in an era where kids were seen and not heard. So, you didn’t really ask too many questions and then got to the ripe old age of 50. I asked, “Mum, what was that orange peel that was there?” “You remember that?” “Yes, what is that? I’ve never asked you.” And she said, basically, when you had an upset stomach, or anybody had an upset stomach, because it was dry, you cut a piece, you put it in some boiling water, you drink it, and it settles your stomach. I was like, wow. So, there were remedies; there was the medicine that you necessarily couldn’t afford. You can make it yourself. There was also just this whole, like, okay, you need a sofa. So, you might get a hand me down, and as you don’t have the opportunity to go to an upholsterer or pay for more fabric, you put a throw over it, you just put a throw over it, and it became very much it will happen, it will do, that will do. Even when the settee, I remember the chair, the springs or something went in it, and we just got a bit of board and just put it on there. That was it. Sorted.

 

Katie

Yes, my mum always calls my stepdad a bodger, which I think she means as an insult, but I think he’s incredible because he can just. We’ve got this key in our bathroom door that used to, it’s like an old-fashioned lock, and the keys fall out all the time. So, he just attached a plug chain from the key to the door handle. So now when it falls out, it’s just, you know, those little moments of genius. Particularly, you know, if it were me, I’d just buy a new lock for the door, but I think that generation has that sort of engineering brain to see a problem and solve it with whatever they had around them. And I think it’s inspiring for those of us who are interested in design, right?

 

Jay

No, definitely. And it’s interesting to grow up in that era and seeing how relevant it is to design now. It’s just like, wow that upbringing I’ve had, to me, is brilliant. And I think, was it your mum calling him a bodger? Bodgers are quite skilled; they used to be in the woods. They were the ones that brought all of the timber down from the woods after they’d made it into something and sell it in the market. They will make the legs and what have you.

 

Katie

Yes

 

Jay

Bodgers

 

Katie

I think it’s a compliment, but I don’t think it was meant in that way.  You mentioned Out of the Dark, and this was a charity that you set up in High Wycombe to train disadvantaged young people in furniture restoration. And you set that up with your wife at the time, Jade. Tell me a little bit about how that initiative came about and what its purpose was?

 

Jay

Well, basically, Out of the Dark came about. I was running a charity called. Well, me and Jade, my ex-wife, as a matter of fact, Jade says hello to you as well, because she knows I am doing this today. We were running a charity called Street Dreams, which is basically about getting young people away from crime. So, it was a fresh approach to social problems. The Council, Police, Social Services, Fire Service came to us and say we’ve got a hot spot area where young people are committing crime and we need you to go in there and sort it out. Funding started drying up and we needed to continue working with those young people because one of the things that we operated when we started running all these charities; it was a case of working ourselves out of a job, which basically means that you work with a group of young people who are disengaged, then they become engaged and where do they go with all that energy? Then we employ them and then they start to become the new youth leaders. So, as we went to continue working with these young people, Jade came up with the wonderful idea of restoring old furniture because there was a desk that we had been donated, via I think it was BT who gave us a desk, and they said oh, you can farm it on to the young people that you work with. And they used to give us laptops and what have you as well. And this young person had been given this desk, but he wanted to decorate it. So, he brought it to my back garden, and we worked on it together. Jade was in the kitchen, she was looking out the window, and she’s like, that’s a project idea. So, she comes running out telling me and this young guy, “I’ve got a brilliant project, it’s a brilliant project, and it’s all based around this desk”. And the young person looked quite shocked. He said, “this is my desk.”

 

Katie

Don’t take it away!

 

Jay

This project, I think, is brilliant. And, I can see the young person is getting like…  I said, “Jade, can he take the desk home?” “Oh, yeah, no problem, he can take it home, but it’s the idea based around that; you teaching young people how to do up furniture”. And I’m like, “okay, cool.” So, it came about along the lines of Jade just explaining what she saw through the kitchen window, and then came up with a project idea of teaching young people how to revamp and restore old furniture. But with doing that, you need a teacher, and I’m just a DIY guy; I didn’t really know much. I was on building sites and whatever. And so, I knew nothing about restoration. What we then decided to do was, go to the community and ask for their support. Luckily, we were based in High Wycombe at the time, which used to be the furniture capital. So when I went around to the Neighbourhood Watch Schemes, WI groups, Age Concern; when we went around to all of these different retirees or the older generation, we were inundated with people offering to come and teach us how to crochet, how to cane, how to do this or that. It was unbelievable. So, alongside the young people being taught, I was getting taught how to do these crafts; it was quite magical. Our oldest teacher was a guy called Ken; he was based in a retirement home in Beaconsfield. We used to take these chairs to him. Basically, I had a job, we had a job coming to Out of the Dark. This lady had eight Victorian oak chairs she wanted recaning. We didn’t know how to do it. We took the job on because one of our mentors said accept any job, and then figure out how you’re going to do after.

 

Katie

Brilliant Advice.

 

Jay

Yes. So, we took the job on, and then we had to find someone that can do this for us and luckily, we found Ken. We used to take these chairs to the retirement home, and they had a little shed for him. He wasn’t allowed to come to us because of health and safety. But we were allowed to come to him. And it was probably the most magical lesson, education, I’ve had in how to a cane or recane a chair. Ken would tell us stories or watch us doing the work, and if you got it wrong, he’d give you a little smack with a piece of cane, and it would be like, right, you’ve got that wrong, and it was just like, oh, okay, right.  It was quite funny.

 

Katie

That sounds amazing. And how did the young people you were working with react to seeing these pieces of furniture that had been written off? You know, put in a box of broken and unwanted? How did the young people react to seeing them brought back to life, given a new life, and being transformed?

 

Jay

Yes. The young people, for me, how they reacted was very urban, I would say. When I first got in contact with them, they came from loads; we got referrals from all over from Social Services, Police, schools, self-referrals, you name it, we were getting them. But the initial cohort, when I was explained to them what we were intending on doing, I couldn’t tell them that we were going to teach them how to restore and revamp old furniture. Really, and truly, that would not turn them on. But what turned them on was the case of I’m going to show you how to make money from nothing. And they were like, hold on, that’s impossible. You can’t do it. And I said, “well, you see that chair that someone’s throwing away” “yeah, I was kicking that chair around the other day; it’s rubbish.” “So we’re going to turn that into a desirable object where we can see, well, I can see there’s £150 sitting there.” And then they’re engaged. They’re like, “whoa, hold on, you’re going to turn that chair that I throw against the wall into £150?”  And then when they see the transformation, and one of the things with Out of the Dark, which was quite beautiful, the young people saw the transformation from start to end. So, they would see a broken piece of furniture; then they would learn the skills and how to repair it and bring it up to date. Then they would learn about the fabric, different fabric designers and the textures and the kind of techniques that they utilise. Then they learn about magazines, and they learn about bloggers, like yourself, who were very influential in then putting your product into the right market publication and furniture stores, such as Hills. When they learn that, they are learning about business but the transformation; you could see the light bulbs constantly switching on in their head. It was like “beep, beep, beep” and even when we had the opportunity of, there was a photographer, and I’m trying to remember, Kate Davis, that’s her name. She came down and taught some of our young people how to take pictures. She was a photographer at Hills, and now she’s gone solo, but she taught our young people the composition, the lighting, this and that. And it was just. All of our young people were just switched on. Some of them liked photography more, some of them warmed more to restoration, and some of them loved HR, so dealing with that side of the business. So, it switched them on in more ways than one.

 

Katie

And what did they go off and do? Are there young people that you’re sort of still in touch with who’ve gone on to work and repair and restoration? Or was it more just learning a skill set that they could apply elsewhere in life?

 

Jay

I would say, out of the 100% that we deal with those, 50% have gone into restoration or gone into furthering their education, learned upholstery,  gone into project management, furniture, interior designing and stuff like that. A lot of them have just gone on to normal jobs. I think with the kind of group of young people we used to have, them just getting out of bed was a bonus. Them not smoking or doing some low-level crime is a winner. I remember when I was speaking to Sean Sutcliffe, and he came down to visit us at Out of the Dark, he was asking these young people, “well, who’s that designer? Who made that chair, who made this and who did that?” And Sean said to me, “Jay, hold on a minute. These guys know nothing about the design.” I said, “Sean, this is not your average group of young people you’re dealing with. These young people, some of them, are here because the police have told them. These young people do crime. These people are smoking. Their parents can’t even get them motivated. For them to actually be speaking to you is a bonus. So, all of that will come later. What we have to do is get them engaged to then be able to say you can achieve something; you can achieve anything you want. Just because someone at the educational authorities said that because you’ve got no qualifications, you are nothing. That isn’t the case.” So that’s what I was explaining to Sean.

 

Katie

Do you think there’s a metaphor, and don’t let me put words in your mouth? Tell me if I’m wrong. But do you think there’s a metaphor between taking this furniture that’s been written off and restoring it, and the young people who perhaps have been written off by schools or by Police and giving them the skills to prove themselves?

 

Jay 

Yes. I agree with you 110%. I don’t agree with them proving themselves: I agree with them proving themselves to themselves. It’s one of the things that I love about restoration is it brings so many elements for people who have been put on, let’s say, the scrap heap. If you go into the educational system, it’s kind of set up where if you don’t get the A*+ or you don’t get the grades, you really can amount to nothing, is kind of what they’re saying to you. If you get the A*, you’re going to college and go to university, have 2.5 kids, and you’re happily ever after; you’ve got a brilliant job. Whereas the way that I look at things, I look at sustainability as a whole. And some people look at it as “Oh, you’ve got to separate your plastics from your paper in your glass in the centre.” Sustainability includes people, and these young people need to have something put into them that allows them to see themselves as sustainable and valued members within our society.

So that’s what it was all about. It was saying, “See that piece of chair that’s over there. And it’s knackered, it’s rubbish, most people just kick it, we’re going to turn that into something desirable.”  To try and explain to the young people that there is a direct connection between that desirable item, that item that was rubbish, and now it’s desirable, it’s exactly the same as you.  I’m going to give you all of the skills that you’re going to put in your rucksack, so that when you go to a job interview or you go somewhere, you’re going to feel proud of what you’ve achieved. And what you’ve achieved is the unachievable because most people have told you, you are not going to amount to anything, but you’re able to restore something, restore it, bring it back to life, or redesign it, or even take a beautiful picture, which allows it to be sold or communicate with somebody in media, that means we’re going to get a piece in a magazine. That is just as important as restoring.

 

Katie

Yes, and I think that’s a really important point that’s often missed in the environmental movement. You know, that’s why I love the triple bottom line model, which is people, planet and profit. You know, of course, you’ve got to make a profit if you’re a profit-making business. The planet, but I think people are increasingly coming around to but, there’s also the people; you know, we can’t have environmentalism at the cost of people. Those things, I think, are really intersectional, actually, I think they’re really related.

 

Jay 

Definitely 110%. I think that I’ve never heard of that one before. But I’m going to take that because that’s really good. And you always come out with these profound ways of seeing.

 

Katie

It wasn’t me that came up with that!

 

Jay

But your knowledge. You have all of this, and you just have it at your fingertips. But yes, people are very, very important. Profit is important. But sometimes, I would say I think people and planet are very important to me, especially when it comes to community work because I worked in the community sector, and really, there is no profit in working within the community. The community, you’re doing it for love. And you’re kind of doing it for people you’re never going to see, so I have this way of functioning. Now that I’m here on this planet to influence people I’m never going to meet. And that means that I have to leave a legacy, create something that can be taken over by someone else or redesigned by someone else. And then, they would say, well, I got that idea from that person, but this is what I’ve done with that idea. And that, to me, is what future-proofing is all about; let’s make sure that the future is bright for people who are not here yet, because if we continue the way that we’re continuing on this planet, we’re not going to leave them a pretty problem. It’s going to be quite messy.

 

Katie

Yes, absolutely. So after Out of the Dark, there was a bit of a perfect storm in which your marriage broke down, Out of the Dark lost funding, and you became homeless for a little while. Are you happy to talk about kind of that period of your life and how you moved on from it?

 

Jay

Absolutely happy. I think the things that I had, for a number of years, I was running Street Dreams with Jade, my ex-wife, and then running Out of the Dark, were very successful. But then I messed up and basically didn’t have the kind of, what’s the word I’m looking for? I didn’t have our relationship at the forefront of my existence. So, when I fell down, I had to leave. I left the family home because, basically, I was being naughty. I cheated, and that wasn’t great. And it was a case of right. I’m in this space; my brain was just in a space where it was totally messed up. And I remember getting in the car, and I remember driving, and before I turned the ignition, I remember thinking to myself, I was sitting in the car. It must have been about, it felt like a day, but it was only for like five minutes. And I remember saying to myself, look. You are so important to the community; you’ve helped so many people. Now you’re so strong for so many different people. If you turn around and you ask someone for help, what would they think of you? You can’t ask the people whom you’ve helped for help. Because they will look at you like, hold on a minute, you’re the one that’s always strong for us, but how can I help you if you’ve helped me? It was a really weird conversation I was having with myself in the car. And it just totally messed up. So, I’ll take you back a little bit. What had happened? I cheated on my relationship with Jade. Jade didn’t want to continue Out of the Dark with me. Jade dealt with all of the finances, the whole shebang. I dealt with the young people, the practical running of Out of the Dark. So Out of the Dark started going downhill because of that; because there was one side that wasn’t functioning, Then it had to come to a complete halt. We had a number of young people that were working for us, that I had to make sure that they had received the redundancy money and all that kind of good stuff. And I remember saying to a young person, “once all of this is sorted, I’m going to go missing for a few days because this is a lot for me to take on.” And I got in the car, and I had that little conversation with myself, that whom could I ask for help. And like he called no one. So I got in a car, and I drove, and I didn’t even know where I was driving to all I know is I left my phone, I left everything in the house, and I just got in the car and drove, and I didn’t even know where I was driving to.   All I know is I left my phone, I left everything in the house, and I just got in the car and drove.  It was only when I got to, I think I was on the M4 or M5, the car started flashing, there was a red light, petrol, was coming on. I pulled into this petrol station, put some petrol in and then I saw a retail part that had a Dixon’s and some other bits, and there was a McDonald’s there. I remember getting a double cheeseburger, and I sat in this car and just went to sleep after I ate it. I woke up the next day; people were hustling and bustling. And I remember sitting in that car park, and I was looking at all these people going by their day-to-day activities. And it was almost as if I was an observer; I couldn’t see what I should be doing the next day. I couldn’t function. It was like my body was numb. Everything was dead. I was like a zombie. I don’t know what zombies are; it’s just like, The Walking Dead. that’s why I felt like, that I was just sitting in the car. I think it was only. I sat in a car for almost about a week, and I remember getting out. Apologies, it gets a bit crude, but you’ll get the gist of this. I sat in this car for a week. I hadn’t washed and cleaned or anything, in the same clothes. And I remember getting out and going to the toilet because I used to go to the toilet in McDonald’s. And I remember looking around like, what was that? And my smell had become a presence. I turned around. You know when you feel someone beside you, like if someone’s walking too close to you, you can feel them?  You just know it. “You’re a bit close, mate. You want to back up?” I turned around, thinking there was someone there. It was my body odour, and it had such a stench.

 

Katie

Sorry, I shouldn’t laugh.

 

Jay

You should laugh, you should laugh because now that I’m thinking about it, it really shocked me out. Because I turned around and thought someone was there. It was the smell of me. And I was, oh, that’s quite bad. So, I remember I had some money in my pocket, and there was a hotel up the road. I said, right, I’m going to go in there and get washed up because I need to. If my smell has got its own postcode, I need to get rid of that; it’s not good. So then, I drove to this hotel, I went to a shop, got some shampoo, shower gel stuff, and then took myself to this hotel. And I remember that the Police, Jade, had reported me missing, and the Police were on the lookout for me, but it was the only time my number plate had come up on the radar. So, as it came up on the radio, they knew to send the Police to where I was just to make sure I was okay. And at the same time as the police doing that, Jade contacted Gerald, who’s a businessman in Wolverhampton, who has now become like my brother and my guardian angel that looks after me. He came and got me, and I was sitting in his car. All this time, I had my shower gel, but I still didn’t have a bath; I hadn’t had a wash yet. The Police came, he came. It happened so quick. It was like, “oh, man, oh, I got to be interviewed by the Police” and Gerald came and said, “come in the car I want to speak to you.”. “Okay, but I’ve got this shower gel; I want to take a shower. I booked this room at this hotel.”  I sat in his car; I was chatting to him, and I just started crying. First time ever I’ve ever cried in front of a man, in front of a black guy. And never had anybody that. He never took the mickey out of me. So, I’m sitting in his car, and I’m crying away like proper crying, like full-on crying like a baby cries.

 

Katie

Snot crying.

 

Jay

Snot crying; everything. But it was unreal. And then he said to me, and I’ll never forget it. “I’ve got a job for you.” I was like, “hold on a minute. My body odour’s got its own postcode; it’s sitting in the back of your car. I’m here with shower gel, snot running out of my nose; I’m crying. I know I don’t look the best and you’ve just offered me a job. Can’t you see I’m crying?” And he just couldn’t. I didn’t say to him, but I was thinking he said, “yeah, I think I’ve got a job for you. There’s this project I’ve got, community projects. And do you want it? You know what, let’s go!” And he just drove me to these offices, where there was this. He probably had about 15 people in there. He runs high-end clothing shops. So, these people all dressed up to the nines, all smelling beautiful, looking fabulous. Now there’s Stig of the Dump walking in with his postcode body odour walking in, and he’s introducing me to all these people. And I’m just like, this is extremely awkward because I know if I can smell my odour, what are they going to think? And yes, I’ll never forget that!

But to answer your question, because that was a long way of answering it. How did I get myself back? I got myself back via the community. Gerald, I lived with him for two weeks. And then he put me to live with his mum and his stepdad, and they gave me life again; they reborn me. They nourished me, they loved me, they cared for me and built me back up to where I am today. And I’m still in the family’s arms. I’m still going around and having dinner every Monday, Wednesday and Saturday. We have Saturday soup. Mum, as I call her, she’s my second mum; she makes sure that I’m all right, that I’m resting, and I’m not working too hard. Dad is a guy that she was with, and he’s the first man I’ve ever called dad. And he teaches me how to cook. And they teach me just to be a dad, basically. And it’s, yes, it’s really, really nice. It’s a massive leap that I’ve made in explaining it. But there are so many things that have happened to me, I can’t even believe it myself. It’s just like, really, really, really, it’s just too much.

 

GUEST INTERVIEW PART 2

Katie

Do you now feel differently about, you started the story by saying you’d helped so many people you didn’t feel you could ask for help. Has your perspective on that changed now?

 

Jay

Most definitely. My perspective on asking for help is that I’ll ask. I think the first time I asked Gerald was for £100 pound, it took me a week to ask him for £100, to build up the courage to ask him. And then, when I asked him, he said, “Yeah, no problem.” And he gave me the money, and he held my hand while he was giving me the money. And I thought, here we go, there’s going be a catch. And he said, “You never have to worry about asking me for money; I will support you until you’re ready to fly.” And I didn’t even tell him that it took me a week, but he knew it was a big deal. And he’s been supporting me ever since. He’s still in my life, as is his mum, whom I classify as mum, and his stepdad, whom I call my dad. They’re supporting me. 110%. So, I will always ask for help, and he is someone that I’ve asked for guidance from on the financial issues and just stuff. Because when you’re not necessarily a celebrity, well, they call me a celebrity. But when you’re a celebrity, there’s a lot of stuff that comes your way. And all I really want to do is be in my workshop, dancing with some paint and some fabric and just having a great time. But you have to make decisions on a load of other stuff, and it’s kind of, really, do I have to?  Yes. he helps me out with that.

 

Yes, it’s important to have people you can talk to about that stuff, I would imagine. So then the BBC came knocking on your door. Tell me about that call. Was Money for Nothing the first show?

 

Jay

Money for Nothing was the first. What happened was when I was at Out of the Dark, The Guardian newspaper came and made a video of us. And that video went viral. It’s a little bit of a story. I’ll try and speed it up about The Guardian. They emailed Jade and said, “we want to do this video of Out of the Dark. We think it’s really great, blah, blah blah”, and so okay, cool. So, they sent this guy to come down and film it. He comes down; they said we need five days with you. Cool. Five days. Really good. capture a lot of stuff. Comes down on the first day. He’s got no camera. Okay, cool. No problem. I spoke to Jade and say “he’s got no camera”. “Don’t worry probably the second day he’s just fielding it all out.” Second day he comes down, he’s got no camera. I said, “Jade, what’s going on here? I thought you said they’re going to film us; there’s no camera on the second day.” She said “don’t worry, he will come on the third day, he’ll bring a camera”.  I said, “you know what, he might have one those little secret cameras in his tie or something?” And she said, “no, no, no, no, no, they’re going to really film”. He comes down on the third day, and he still has no camera. So, I said to him, “excuse me, mate, I thought you’re making a docu, like filming, like what’s going on?” And he said, really confidently, “What I need to film hasn’t happened.” And I was like, “you are unbelievably confident.” He said, “I’m bringing my camera tomorrow and the next day and I will film, and it will be fabulous.” Like a true artist, this guy filmed in the next two days, and he captured some of the most brilliant stuff. It went viral on The Guardian. All of these TV companies started contacting us, left, right and centre. And it was insane. Jade was inundated with offers for me to be on this show, that show. So, to cut a long story short, Money for Nothing came along and did a pilot of the Money for Nothing Show. We also had Studio Lambert; they came down and did a pilot. Loads of people came down and did loads of different pilots and wanted me to be in loads of different stuff. But then Out of the Dark folded. I came to Wolverhampton, and Money for Nothing got back in contact with me to say they’ve got the go-ahead to start this show. Would I like to be part of it?  So, I was an artisan, first of all, on the first two series of Money for Nothing, and then I became a presenter on Series 3. I did it up until, I think it’s, Series 9 I did it until, and then in between that time, I’d done a show with Gok Wan, Fill  Your House for Free. And then Repair Shop came calling.

 

Katie

Now you’re presenting The Repair Shop, co-presenting Jay and Dom’s Home-Fix and hanging out with Mary Berry on Christmas specials.

 

Jay

I tell you what, when that phone call came through to my agent, I was just like, I’m doing it. She just said, “there is a possibility of you working on a Christmas special with Mary.” I said, “I’m doing it. You don’t even have to say the second name; I’m doing it. I know what it is. Let’s do it.” That was a real joy. And to find that Mary Berry is such a fan of the Repair Shop. I mean, she was explaining episodes to me that I almost forgot about. “Mary, really?” She said, “Yes. We go home, I go home, my husband’s got my drink there, and he’s there, and we sit down together, and we watch,  If I’m not there if I’m filming, it’s the next day; he never watches it without me.” I was like, “Really Mary?!” She did say this. I was the first person she asked for on that Christmas special. You know, when they ask whom do you want – she’s like, “I want Jay”. “You have to think of other people, as well.” “Oh, yes, you can pick them.” But it was quite cool, actually, when she said that to me. She’s a gorgeous lady. And I mean, there are people in TV who surpass their reputation. I see her as a nice person on TV, but when you meet her in the real flesh, someone like her doesn’t have to be nice because they’re lived long enough, beyond that point of being nice. But she is so genuine.  Unbelievably beautiful.

 

Katie

I’m so glad to hear it.

 

Jay

Yes! Me being on Mary Berry, come on. Crazy! And I’ll tell you what, I’ll give you the biggest scoop ever; I have Mary Berry’s mobile number.

 

Katie

Imagine that; I mean, you’ve made it, Jay!

 

Jay

The guy from Hackney, he’s got Mary Berry – I can just call her!

 

Kati 

On speed dial! Amazing. Alongside all the TV work, you do also run Jay & Co, through which you create statement furniture, and I’d love to talk to you about your approach to restoration because I think it would probably get purists a little hot under the collar. You’re not one for putting classic pieces back to how they once were; you’re more likely to paint a leg or bright colour or pick a really bright, tell me about, defend yourself to the purists.

 

Jay

I can defend. The general issue is that the hardest thing to do is to defend myself to the purists. The purists have a valid statement, but one of the things I would say to the purist is that the majority of the items I obtain were going into landfill. A lot of these items are kind of like, people don’t want them. So there are purists who say you’ve got to leave it as it is; it’s okay, I can leave it as is, but is anybody going to buy it? Is that going to keep the sustainability going?  I need this to go back into the market; I need to compete with my competitors. And for the purists, my competitors are the likes of IKEA, John Lewis, Furniture Village, and DFS. These are the guys that are doing things at a volume that basically, I have to follow suit in what they’re doing. So, if I kept it as a purist item, and my market is very, very small then, so I need to branch out. And also, I have some form of creativity. And I think my creativity should be allowed to be on an item that I think needs it, because of some of these items. Some of them are a little bit tired. And I’m not talking the purest of the purest, not talking like a classic Eames or a classic, what’s his name? I really enjoy Ernest Race; his furniture, the original upcycler. Their furniture is just to die for. But when you’re trying to reintroduce something into the modern market and make people get the notion of why something should be pure, the frame is still pure; that the essence of the design; I don’t necessarily change it. I update it with the fabric and the foam that needs to adhere to current specifications. And not everybody wants to live in a house that looks like a museum. Not everybody wants that kind of style. So, some people want that little bit of quirkiness, that little bit of “oh, that looks quite smart. I don’t know why it looks smart. But that looks that looks different. Where’d you get that from? Can I get one?” “No, you can’t. There’s only one in the world.” And that’s what I create. And I think the purists, you can have so many, let’s say Robin Day chairs that are all the same, and not everybody’s going to want a Robin Day chair in their house. They might want it in a completely different colour that doesn’t suit their colour scheme. We are all individuals. And as we’re all individuals, we should be able to create our individuality with anything that we create. And that could be writing, reading, it could be painting or drawing; you can bring your own flavour to it. So, I’ve met so many purists along the way, not only for me putting the fabric or painting some particular chairs but even just doing upholstery. I put one button on a chair, and the amount of upholsters that have said to me, “you can’t do that; that’s not the way to do it. You’ve got to put five, three or seven. Why are you putting one?” “Because I want to”. “But it’s not right. We don’t teach that in the books.” I said, “I’m not teaching it in a book. Never. Neither. I just want to do it this way. Right?” “It’s not right. You shouldn’t do it that way. Just one button on a chair. No, it’s not heard of.” But it’s kind of cool. I love that everybody is different and everybody has a valid opinion, and everybody has the right to do things their way. And that’s all I’m doing it. I’m just doing it my way.

 

Katie

Absolutely. I remember the first time I saw and it was a designer chair. I can’t remember which designer it was. And you painted one leg red and put this really bonkers fabric on it. And I was like, What is he doing? But then my next thought was, I kind of like it. I like the audaciousness of it that this person designed this, and now I’m designing the next phase of its life. So I get to pick what that looks like.

 

Jay

Exactly, yes. And you can pick what it looks like. And then it goes on to live another. And the beauty of it is this; a lot of the designs came from a mistake. So, the one-painted leg, it came from two different mistakes. There was a young person called Travis who used to work on Out of the Dark. We used to give him a chair to paint, and without fail, I don’t know what it was with Travis; he would paint three legs and leave one leg. So, paint the whole chair, and then like he’s just left this one leg. He’s like, “finished, Jay, next one.” “Travis, you haven’t finished this?” “No, it’s done I need the next chair”, And everybody started laughing like Travis, you’ve left a leg again. He would always leave one leg. And then there was a time when I was in Wolverhampton, and I think it was Money for Nothing I was working on at the time. They gave me these Ercol chairs and I painted them. I always paint the light colour first. And then I knew I was going to paint all of the legs black apart from one which was to be blue, I was thinking of. But first of all, I was going to paint all of them blue. And I remember painting this one chair leg blue on an Ercol and then the phone rang. I was on the phone, I looked at the chair and I was like, that looks beautiful. And then the person on the other end said “what are you talking about? What looks beautiful?”  I said, “I’ve got to go” and put the phone down. And basically, the design came to me that one leg and then all the rest black and what it does, especially with this Ercol stick-back chair, it made you really look at the design because once you highlighted one leg, it made you identify all of the different components in it, that made it an Ercol to me. I love the designs, especially the original ones that it’s like the Meccano of furniture; you can see exactly how it’s put together. You can see why it was put together and why that joint is needed there to make that strong, but then balances the whole chair. By painting one leg, it made me see the designer and work out how he puts all that stuff together. And that’s all I wanted everybody else to see. And that’s what it did. That’s how it came about.

 

Katie

That’s really smart. I like that. Right? We need to dig into The Repair Shop a little bit more. For anybody who hasn’t seen it, and I’m assuming they’re in the minority, it’s centred around the idea of members of the public bringing family heirlooms or sentimental items that are broken to the Weald and Downland Living Museum to be repaired by one of the specialist craftsmen. And you’re overseeing this whole thing. Now as a pitch, that doesn’t sound that engaging, and yet somehow, it’s magical. What is it about that show? Do you think that has really captured the hearts of the British public? What makes it so special?

 

Jay 

I think what makes it so special is its community, its love and it’s doing something for someone that you don’t know; it’s caring for people. And it’s the celebration of crafters, but it’s going back to a bygone era where we’re looking at repairing things. A lot of people now have grown up in this consumer society, which is always broken, buy another one. We’ll get it next day delivery, it will come or we can just click this button, and here it is. Whereas everybody, all the experts we’ve got on The Repair Shop, these guys and girls; they are master craftspeople, and they’re able to turn something around, which is not only an item but is a family member that is steeped in so many memories for that person, that’s like, wow, and you’re quite right. I think when you pitch an idea, like The Repair Shop, no one’s going to want to see anybody repairing something, really? What’s so exciting, I know it’s their family heirloom, but it’s quite boring. But really, when you look at the show, it has grown from being on BBC Two, and then went to BBC One on the daytime, then it’s gone up to primetime. It just shows, for its popularity, that people want it. We’ve got up to about 7 million people watching the show. And it’s like, that’s a lot of people that are interested in someone repairing something. Like, really? You’re really interested?  And really what they are really interested in is recycling because that’s all we’re doing really on the show. We’re not throwing this family heirloom into a landfill site. We’re showing that you can repair it, which means it has been recycled to do something which it was born to do again, but the biggest thing its recycling doing is those memories, and the loving memories are just unbelievable. Unbelievable.

 

Katie

Yes, I think there’s real power in the stories that an object gathers over time. You know, something that’s new doesn’t, it might be shiny and clean, but it’s got no stories yet. And I think there’s that, you know, the family stories and the memories that come out in that show are really powerful. So from a sustainability perspective, what can we learn? What can we all learn from The Repair Shop? From your work with Jay and Co, perhaps even looking back to Out of the Dark? What are the sustainability lessons?

 

Jay

I think the sustainability lessons for me and anybody I speak to; it’s all about community. And we should be looking on our doorstep first and foremost because I know there is a global thing that we’re trying to address, with regard to everybody. The overuse of plastics, and so on and so forth. I know it’s killing the planet. But locally, something like The Repair Shop, even Out of the Dark, has shown me that you can come together as a local community and you can achieve unbelievable things. You can achieve something for your immediate community first and foremost, but then it branches out. So, The Repair Shop started from an idea of the creative director or the creative team at Ricochet, the production company who does it. The young lady took her chair, her mum’s chair, when her mum passed away, to an upholsterer to be reupholstered.  When she got the chair back, she fell in love with a chair, but what really clicked is the upholsterers saved the fabric that her mum used to sit on and framed it. And she broke down in tears. And very similar to Gerald, what she did was get a TV idea. The guy’s like, “no, it’s a frame of your mum’s fabric that used to be on the chair.” And she’s like, “No, no, no, no, I’ve got it. This, this is it.” And she came up with The Repair Shop. And she came up with The Repair Shop because of the way she felt. So that in itself started from family members, community, this upholsterer doing something a little bit out of the ordinary, which he wasn’t supposed to do, but he did it because it’s a nice thing. And how it made her feel then allowed her to create a TV show, which then affects 7 million people, which then can affect even more, because it’s all about locally, what can we do. And if we can reach out to do something for someone, whether that is repairing an item or helping someone across the road? It’s as simple as that. It doesn’t have to be a big thing. It can start small. So sustainability –  a long answer, but it’s about community.

 

Katie

Yes and I think that’s really powerful because, you know, climate change is this huge, complicated problem. And no one of us or no group of us is going to solve it on its own. So, I think we all almost need to work out what’s the little bit we can do, you know, locally within our own skill set, within our own communities to kind of move towards a more circular economy. How do you feel that opinions towards repair and mending are changing?

 

Jay

I think they’ve almost gone back full circle to the times where I used to have that guy with the stone come around my council estate. We have a number of, they’re not related, but they’ve got a similar name – there are Repair cafes springing up all up and down the land where you can take your toaster or your other bits and bobs for these people to repair them. There are men in their sheds out there doing their bit. And I think this bug of kind of like the make-do and mend culture has definitely come back. The repairing has definitely come back because even if you look at the rise of upcycling, DIY, especially during the first lockdown that I think B&Q sales went through the roof because everybody’s just doing it themselves. So there is this real drive back to just making stuff and repairing and just getting it done. Let’s not buy, let’s not make those big companies even more powerful, because we keep on clicking that button and we get it in the next day. This, I can fix that shelf. No problem. I could do that. I could do that. So yes, repairing has definitely come back.

 

Katie

And what do you think the future holds? Do you think this is a trend that’s been driven by the fact that we’re all spending a lot more time at home? What do you think this is a genuine long-term shift?

 

Jay

It’s a definite long-term shift. It’s a way of thinking. I think what COVID has done for us is basically got us to sit down and really check out what we’re doing to this planet and what we’re doing to our immediate environment, which is your house first and foremost. And then the outdoor environment. The way that we were clapping for nurses on the first day, the same way DIY has been going through the roof. People are really consciously thinking, “hold on a minute, I think I might have consumed too much before. Now it’s time to just put back into my community and my house.” So yes, it’s I don’t think it’s a trend that’s going to go away once COVID is lifted; I doubt it very much.

 

Katie

Good. Brilliant; thank you so much, Jay; that’s been absolutely wonderful. I mean, I suspect we could both sit here and talk about this stuff until the cows come home.

 

Jay Blades 

You’re more than welcome.

 

OUTRO  

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This episode was produced by Sasha Huff, so thank you to Sasha, to October Communications for marketing and moral support,  to Sugru for their sponsorship, and to you for joining me. You’ve been listening to circular with Katie Treggiden